Will over penetrate on a miss through more walls. 180 grain PP: +2.9" (100), -5.2" (200), -15.7" (250), 123 grain (.264"): SD .252 - 6.5 Grendel load, 150 grain (.308"): SD .226 - .300 BLK load, 120 grain (.277"): SD .223 - 6.8 SPC load, 180 grain (.357"): SD .202 - .350 Legend PP load, 160 grain (.357"): SD .179 - .350 Legend PHP load, 150 grain (.357"): SD .168 - .350 Legend EP load, .350 Legend, Win. 6.5 Creedmoor. This leads to the issue of rifle platforms for the cartridge. advantages. Straight-wall hunting states. I am involved in a lot of outdoor activities, and a few years ago I added hunting to the list, which I really enjoy. in. Meanwhile, my limited experience with AR15s in the field is that they are unwieldy to carry and awkward to mount, but that may be just me. 1-7 and 1-8 Twist Rate for 300 Blackout here. This bullet is an American variant of a 223 conversion. (.308"), .1001 sq. The remaining four loads have the common limitation of not carrying general Class 2 game power (KPS 15 or greater) all the way to their MPBR distances, though all are powerful enough (KPS greater than 12.5) for medium size, thin skinned game, such as deer. We also had a gun writer bring out a Bighorn 500 Automax and it was near impossible to get it to fire more than once without it jamming. Looking for something to read on concealed carry pistols? This may not be a great concern on deer and similar sized thin skinned game that do not require a lot of penetration if only broadside lung shots are taken, because these large diameter bullets are going to deliver a lot of shock energy to the target, even if they do not always penetrate well. AR-15 350 Legend 12.5" Mlok Tactical Upper Assembly - The new 350 Legend is an upgrade to your standard AR-15 platform in pistol length. Being a few years older than the 350 Legend, the 300 Blackout captured the eyes of most hunters. Certainly, that last claim is correct. But as soon as the 350 Legend was introduced, hunting enthusiasts started digging on the new centerfire rifle cartridge. The 7.62x39mm Soviet cartridge was also evaluated, but did not make the cut. In this category, the 300 Blackout bags a trophy for being the more affordable ammo against the 350 Legend. Basically, It is a larger caliber bullet in a smaller capacity shell. The loads that impress me least are the 150 and 160 grain .350 Legend loads, mainly because of the low sectional densities of the light for caliber bullets. OLIGHT Baldr Pro Weapon Light Review – Should You Buy One. Winchester touts the .350 Legend as "designed for deer hunting out to 250 yards." Bullet placement is the most important factor in achieving quick, humane kills, so anything that makes hitting easier is desirable. The .350 Legend may prosper as a medium bore deer hunting cartridge, not only in restricted cartridge areas, but in general. 93 Videos. Ditto for AR15 platforms, whether complete rifles or uppers. 150 grain EP: KPS at 100 yds. .350 Legend Cost Advantage. in. Here are the 100, 200 and 250 yard trajectory figures in inches, for each load, sighted-in for a +/- 3 inch MPBR, computed for a scope mounted 1.5 inches over the bore. For varmint hunters, competitors, and gun owners practicing at a distance, supersonic 300 BLKs are big medicine. 3 Likes. ocean374. Results are in descending order of MPBR. (.277"), .0745 sq. Winchester has announced that the Winchester XPR bolt action rifle will be chambered in .350 Legend. 180 grain PP: KPS at 100 yds. As far as the ‘exiting bullets’, that must refer to .357 handgun bullets, which would in fact be designed for velocities slower than the .350 Legend can generate. Our KPS parameters and results assume vital area hits, of course. 0 Comments. These three are straight wall case designs, sized to function in AR-15 rifle platforms. Edit: Quality HD ammo options and availability is better now than ever, but I still can't afford to, train with it. advantages. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. In other words, you have the same 30 caliber round that the 7.62×39 has. The 7.62×39 uses a bullet diameter of .311, which can also be used in .303 British and 7.62x54R, but not in any .30-06, .308 Win, or 300 BLK. After its debut, Winchester claimed that the 350 Legend was the fastest straight wall cartridge ever released to overthrow the 300 Blackout ammunition in the market. Both ammo provides subsonic or supersonic levels loading options and would fit in a standard AR-15 action and magazine. 350 Legend has no parent case. DA: 34 PA: 75 MOZ Rank: 6. In 2010, 300 Blackout was refined for the AR-15 to provide performance features like the legendary Russian 7.62x39 combat cartridge. I would expect recoil of the 150 and 160 grain loads to be slightly less, because of the lighter weight bullets. Winchester has published some vague promotional material with numbers that suggest that the .350 Legend generates about 12 percent lower recoil than a .30-30. 350 legend vs 450 bushmaster: A Gun Expert’s Perspective What is the 350 Legend parent case? Thermal Imaging vs Night Vision Optics – Which Is Better? My argument is that a prudent and responsible hunter should never attempt a shot at a game animal beyond the MPBR of the cartridge/load being used (and closer is always better). The 350 Legend can perform up to 240 yards while the 300 Blackout fails to reach a useful 200 yards range. Sectional density (SD) is the ratio of a bullet's weight in pounds to the square of its diameter in inches. All in all, the .350 Legend holds its own against the comparison cartridges. With this, the 350 Legend snatches another win against 300 BLK. The 350 Legend offers bullet weights ranging from 145 to 265 gr and the ability to practice cheaply with low recoil and high velocity. If I wanted the most powerful cartridge of the lot, I would choose the 180 grain .350 Legend load, although it has the shortest MPBR. SD affects penetration, as all other factors being equal (bullet construction, for example) the bullet with the highest sectional density will penetrate deepest. I found these three cartridges to be the best AR-15 hunting cartridges at the time the article was written. She is a tack driver with .22 and .17. A well designed bolt rifle also carries and mounts satisfactorily, but cycles slower than a lever gun. I calculated the killing power of these loads at 100 yards, as most whitetail deer, blacktail deer and feral hogs are killed at 100 yards, or less. The 180 grain .350 Legend load just makes the minimum SD .200 rule of thumb, while the lower SDs of the 160 and 150 grain .357" bullets does not bode well for them penetrating deeply on heavy bodied animals. Since the .350 Legend uses brass that starts off on the same machines, it is relatively simple to produce in large quantities. There have been a number of different manufacturers who make both bolt action and semi-auto rifles for the 450 Bushmaster. Compared: 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout and .350 Legend. With a 10-year headstart on 350 Legend, there are more options for the 300 Blackout, more barrels, magazines, rifles, pistols, and other accessories dedicated to 300 Blackout instead of 350 Legend. 6307 Arnold Dr, Austin, TX 78723 | Phone: +1 (512) 412-1014 | Email: What’s the Difference Between 350 Legend & 300 AAC Blackout? If you want to continue reading about 300 Blackout, learn about 1-7 and 1-8 Twist Rate for 300 Blackout here. Not only is it generally consistent with results in the field, it can be used to compare any load at any range and includes the factors of energy at impact (which includes velocity), SD and cross-sectional area in an easy to use formula to arrive at a Killing Power Score (KPS) for a given load at a given distance, via the formula: KPS at "y" yards (you pick the yardage) = (impact energy at y yards) x (sectional density) x (cross-section area), or simply: KPS @ y = E @ y x SD x A. Cross-section areas of relevant bullet diameters are .0547 sq. The 350 Legend, also called the Winchester 350 Legend, was introduced by Winchester in 2019 At the time of this writing in April 2019 Winchester still states on their web-site: “The World’s Fastest-Straight Walled Hunting Cartridge with 20% less recoil than the .243 Winchester and 20% more penetration." In comparison, the effective range of a 350 Legend is somewhat shorter than 300 Blackout, although they both work best at around 100 yards or closer. Most data avalible for the Maximum is from pistol and contender barrels much shorter than the 16” Ruger American. for the .300 BLK (all in 8 pound rifles). In the article noted above, Chuck Hawks explained the background and importance of the characteristics of these cartridges, as follows: "It is my understanding that Michigan, Pennsylvania, Ohio and Indiana have mandated that rifles shooting cartridges of at least .35 caliber with straight wall cases between 1.16 and 1.8 inches in length are now legal for use in what I believe Michigan calls the 'limited firearms deer zone.' In this category, the 350 Legend takes another win. It even has over 14% more energy than 300 Blackout, 15% more than 30-30 Win, and 49% more than .223 Rem. Although the 300 Blackout ammo is more powerful, more efficient, and more lethal when fired out of short-barreled rifles than 5.56 ammo, it falls behind the bullet energy of the 350 Legend being the heavier bullet. This leaves the question of how the .350 Legend cartridge compares with bottle neck AR-15 cartridges that have proven useful for hunting Class 2 animals. A game animal hit somewhere other than in the vitals is not likely to go down cleanly, no matter the size, weight and impact energy of the bullet. This round was designed by Winchester primarily to address some perceived shortcomings associated with the .450 Bushmaster. Note that all five loads, sighted-in for +/- 3 inch MPBR, shoot right at three inches high at 100 yards, which is how these cartridges should be zeroed. Another Winchester .350 Legend promotional chart compares energy on target at 200 yards and includes the .30-30, 223 and .300 Blackout. 177 Views. In addition, the .300 BLK load has the limitations of being the least powerful load overall and having the next to shortest MPBR. in. In addition, the .300 BLK load has the limitations of being the least powerful load overall and having the next to shortest MPBR. 150 grain EP: KPS at 100 yds. They also claim that the 350 has lesser recoil than the 450 Bushmaster and the 243 Win. 100% . At the end I will summarize results, muse about rifle platforms and make some concluding remarks. Shorter range shots improve the likelihood of placing a bullet in the right place. This is the subject of this article, to compare the .350 Legend with the 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 Remington SPC and the .300 Blackout. KPS values at the five yard increment closest to each load MPBR are included, to document the power of the loads near the longest range at which a responsible hunter should use them. = 19.5; KPS at 190 yds = 13.6, 6.5 Grendel, Hdy. While the 300 AAC Blackout loads usually weigh between 180- and 220-grains. 300 Blackout has been optimized for maximum efficiency in a 9-inch barrel, making it very suitable for secret work in compact AR-15 SBRs. Supercharge your AR-15 in one easy step!Features:Barrel Length: 12.. 150 grain EP: +3.0" (100), -2.5" (200), -10.3" (250), .350 Legend, Win. The 350 Legend does not use standard 5.56 magazines; ... 300 BLK, 7.62x39, 6.5 Grendel and 450 Bushmaster. The characteristics compared include velocity and energy, maximum point blank range and far zero, trajectory, sectional density, killing power and recoil. Reviews & Buying Guide. Biggest thing is holding a gun up. Although for ammo availability-wise, the 350 Legend could beat 300 BLK, still, the 300 Blackout is more cost-effective. Already there are indications that the 6.8 SPC and 6.5 Grendel are decent hunting loads, the .300 BLK perhaps not so much. Various systems have been created to estimate the killing power of rifle cartridges, with varying results in terms of accuracy. 160 grain PHP: +3.0" (100), -4.0" (200), -13.5" (250), .300 BLK, Winchester 150 grain EP: +2.9" (100), -4.4" (200), -13.4" (250), .350 Legend, Win. My choice of the Grendel, SPC, and Blackout for this evaluation is based on the results of an earlier article, Are AR-15 Type Cartridges Good for Hunting Deer?. 123 grain SST: KPS at 100 yds. When it comes to long-distance shooting, we find the 300 Blackout acceptable for hunting deer within 150 yards. It comprises of the 233 shell casing that was cut down, resized and inserted with a 30 caliber bullet. But when compared to the 350 Legend, the 300 Blackout gets walked over. 350 offers a significant increase in velocity and energy without having to buy a specialty bolt. This is why I preach the "never take a shot beyond MPBR, and closer is always better" doctrine. Unfortunately, many such systems have no correlation with reality at all. Our Latest 350 Legend Video. I came up with a tentative recoil estimate that may or may not be accurate for the .350 Legend, 180 grain load, but it is the best I can do right now without verified powder charge data for the new cartridge. This load generates 1,800 ft.-lbs. The loads being compared are not clearly specified, which is why I say the information is vague. The direct comparison of these three cartridges revealed that they are all capable short to moderate range hunting tools in areas with cartridge size regulations such as these. The Legend is likely a quicker/better killer than the 30/30. We started with Chuck Hawks giving an overview of the cartridge itself in The Winchester .350 Legend. The 350 Legend is brand new, BUT has a bit of a Pedigree As its basically a rimless 357 Maximum. = 14.0, .300 BLK, Win. I believe this load will prove to be the most effective of the initial Legend hunting loads, mainly because it has the highest bullet sectional density. (.357"). The Legend looks like a prayer answered for those who hunt in areas where rifles are restricted to short, straight-walled cartridges. What’s The Best 1-4x Scope for the Money? If you are reloading, the cost may be about the same except that the 350 legend requires a little more gun powder. I am looking at The 16 inch barrel data are used here, for all cartridges, because 16 inches is the most prevalent barrel length for AR-15 rifles. The killing power analysis, below, sheds more light on this. Winchester quotes muzzle velocity (MV) values for its .350 Legend loads from both 16 inch and 20 inch rifle barrels. Excellent performance subsonic. every month for the U.S. military. = 19.7; KPS at 205 yds. Lever action rifles, such as the Winchester Model 94, Marlin Model 336 and Henry Lever Action .30-30, carry and mount well and cycle fast when more than a single shot is needed. Required fields are marked *. It credits the .350 Legend with 903 ft. lbs. in. According to Winchester, the 350 Legend has more energy than many popular rifle cartridges, including the .30-30 Winchester, the .300 Blackout, and the .223 Remington. This is why the .264", .277" and .308" bullets have SDs noticeably higher than the relatively light for caliber .357" bullets. The 350 gets over 23% more penetration than .243 Win and 60% more than .223 Rem. One of the best, in terms of positive correlation with reality, has proven to be the G&S Online Rifle Cartridge Killing Power Formula. Here are the velocity in feet-per-second (fps) and energy in foot-pounds (ft. There’s no denying, the 450 Bushmaster is a devastating hard hitter when it comes to deer and medium-sized game. 120 grain SST: KPS at 100 yds. Its performance is comparable to the 350 Legend Winchester but is more accurate and with better projectile options for terminal ballistics on a big game. (.264"), .0603 sq. We need more information before drawing firm conclusions about the .350 Legend loads. 350 Legend. Your email address will not be published. Are AR-15 Type Cartridges Good for Hunting Deer? Left is 300 Blackout, Center is 350 Legend, right is .223 Remington. … Affordable ammo. Want something with more knock down than a .223. and the .30-30 with 781 ft. lbs. The main difference is that the Grendel carries more killing power to MPBR distance than does the SPC. For varmint hunters, competitors, and gun owners practicing at a distance, supersonic 300 BLKs are big medicine. .350 Legend vs .450 Bushmaster Ballistics. The only difference is its change for AR15 instead of AK47.While the 7.62×39 claims its prestige in most Eastern countries, the 300 blackout gains its popularity in America. Born and raised in Austin TX, Alfred has been shooting guns since he was 18. She has shot my AR and Scorpion. My guesstimate is that this load will generate about 9.0 ft. lbs. CMMG has announced an AR15 carbine (with a 16 inch barrel) in the cartridge, plus 5 and 10 round magazines. I am a firm believer in sighting-in hunting rifles and loads for maximum point blank range (MPBR). I feel that a +/- 3-inch MPBR is appropriate for rifles used to hunt Class 2 game, including the cartridges being evaluated here. more than the .30-30 fired from a 20-inch barrel or a .300 BLK fired from a 16-inch barrel. ocean374. Can I reload 350 Legend using 223 Rem/5.56mm brass? Therefore, it has potential as an effective hunting cartridge, especially when fed 180 grain bullets that have adequate sectional density for deer and hog hunting. Low recoil. We estimate that a rifle cartridge should generate a KPS of at least 12.5 at the range the bullet impacts to be a viable hunting cartridge for common Class 2 game, up to roughly 150 - 175 pounds (e.g., deer and pronghorn), while a KPS of 15.0 gives a margin of killing power for larger Class 2 game (up to 300 pounds). For old school deer hunters (like me) the lever action is perhaps the best all-around platform for a hunting cartridge. Here are the loads I will evaluate and compare. figures for our comparison loads at the muzzle, 100, 200 and 250 yards. = 18.1; KPS at 240 yds. = 13.5, .350 Legend, Win. Any short-action platform that handles the .223 Remington can be easily reworked to handle the .350 Legend cartridge. Winchester Super-X 180 grain Power Point (PP) - BC .221, Winchester Deer Season 150 grain Extreme Point (EP) - BC .392. The 300 Blackout data was with a 16″ barrel, and the rest were with 20″ barrels. I was building a 458 SOCOM when Ruger announced the RARR in 450 BM and I changed gears. AR15 fanciers, long saddled with marginal deer cartridges, are likely to jump all over the cartridge. = 16.5; KPS at 190 yds = 13.7. Compared: 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, .300 Blackout and .350 Legend chuckhawks.com lbs.) of punch at 200 yards—over 100 ft.-lbs. Check out our article on Taurus TCP and Ruger LCP. Interesting about the 350 in a mini mag, but I was thinking that a 300blk mag should work, since the internal ribs are removed for a straight wall case. Recommended article: 458 SOCOM vs 308 Winchester Comparison. Here at Guns and Shooting Online we have made something of a cottage industry of evaluating the performance of the recently introduced .350 Legend cartridge, compared with other relevant cartridges. They can also be useful for hunters who wish to use AR-15 rifles to hunt Class 2 game elsewhere. Having a flatter trajectory is an advantage when it comes to long-range shooting games. One of the disadvantages of the 450 Bushmaster is the amount of recoil associated with the round… The 300 Blackout gets its another win against 350 Legend because it can carry multiple loads in different magazines. for the 6.5 Grendel, 7.5 ft. lbs. 300 Blackout or 350 Legend? Unfortunately, the traditional lever rifle designs, with rear-locking bolts, cannot handle the .350 Legend cartridge, for the simple but critical reason that its MAP is 55,000 psi, well above what rear-locking lever designs can handle. It also boasts approximately 20-percent less recoil than the .243 Win and has less recoil than the 450 Bushmaster. I have enjoyed the outdoors for many years. Producing bolt action rifles in .350 Legend should be a snap. 123 grain SST: +2.9" (100), +0.5" (200), -3.6" (250), 6.8 SPC, Hdy. Its ballistics are JUST behind the 35 Remington. To better understand the differences between 5.56 NATO/.223 Rem. But when compared to the 350 Legend, the 300 Blackout gets walked over. The 300 has a better ballistic coefficient and should have slightly longer range but that won't be a factor in the decision, so it's a wash. But when compared to the 350 Legend, the 300 Blackout gets walked over. It’s safe to claim that the 300 Blackout gets its first win against the 350 Legend. (Formerly 'shotguns only,' I believe, for deer hunting.)". The purpose of these comparisons was to make a thorough on-paper evaluation of how the .350 Legend stacks up in performance against two cartridges long proven to be effective and efficient at taking deer and similar game animals. He is a firm believer in the freedom of exercising constitutional rights, and that includes the right of every law-abiding citizen to own and carry a gun. The .350 Legend is the latest straight-walled cartridge to make waves on the hunting scene. This added weight makes them naturally slower than a 110-grain bullet fired through the same barrel. The 450 Bushmaster has really proven itself to be a short-range beast in the hunting world. These data further document what the MPBR data indicate: the 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 SPC are about 240 yard cartridges, while two of the three Legend loads, along with the .300 BLK, fail to reach a useful range of 200 yards. 160 grain PHP: KPS at 100 yds. The bottom line is all of these hunting cartridges and loads are easy on the shoulder, so that recoil is not a significant deciding factor among them. In choosing between the 350 Legend vs 300 AAC Blackout – our choice is the 350 Legend because it has a better trajectory, more bullet energy, and works better in long-range shooting. Choosing the right cartridge for the perfect hunting experience could be an arduous task, especially when your choice lies between the 350 Legend and the 300 Blackout that both offer excellent functionality. Our KPS parameters and results assume vital area hits, of course. Flat shooting. Winchester claims the 350 Legend is the world’s fastest straight-walled cartridge and has more energy than the 30-30 Win, 300 Blackout and 223 Rem. Next, we compared the .350 Legend .450 Bushmaster and .50 Beowulf. Although buying 300 Blackout is also a great decision because it is more affordable, the 350 Legend is easier to find even during ammo shortages. This high-intensity MAP is no problem with bolt action and AR designs, but a lever rifle chambered in .350 Legend must have a front-locking bolt, such as the Browning BLR and Henry Long Ranger designs. October 6, 2020. My little girl is going to start hunting with me next year she will be 8 in January. Winchester says the .350 Legend drops 7.6 inches at 200 yards and just over 28 inches at 300 yards when zeroed at 100 yards. By comparison, my best estimates of recoil in the other calibers and loads are 7.9 ft. lbs. the 350 is listed as 903 ft-lbs, while the 300 Blackout is listed as 790, the 30-30 Win is listed as 781, and the 223 Rem is listed as 603. 300 blackout any barrel length: fun caliber to shoot, but more expensive than 5.56/.223 to train with. The 6.8 SPC is the best of these loads, with performance so close to that of the 6.5 Grendel that if a hunter has either one, then he/she does not need the other. Copyright 2019 by Gary Zinn and/or chuckhawks.com. of recoil in an eight pound rifle. 120 grain SST: +2.9" (100), +0.3" (200), -3.9" (250), .350 Legend, Win. Loads are listed in descending order of 100 yard KPS values. 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